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Feb 28, 2017, 6:20 pm
#1
Transpacificflyer
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AC pilot pay discussion
Originally Posted by After Burner
I can't tell if that's supposed to be sarcasm.
I have many friends who are AC pilots and I've watched some of them, as the years pass, develop a hatred for the job and the life it gives them. It's not "living the life" ... and, to add insult to injury, it doesn't pay well.
Hmm. The senior pilots can earn up to $225,000 with their salary and benefits and that's more than me, so, I dunno.
Yes, I know that some of the junior drivers earn much less, but if I am not mistaken, the average pay with benefits is in excess of $135,000 under the new contracts. Not bad compared to the majority of people who they are transporting. Yes, they have to work off hours. However, so do younger physicians and EMS workers. The folks who work at the airports also can work odd hours too. These unhappy people should consider taking up a new career if they are unhappy. The company who operate my building are always looking for desk attendants and doormen.
Last edited by tcook052; Mar 1, 2017 at 8:46 pmReason: split post
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Feb 28, 2017, 10:52 pm
#2
Adam Smith
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Hmm. The senior pilots can earn up to $225,000 with their salary and benefits and that's more than me, so, I dunno.
Yes, I know that some of the junior drivers earn much less, but if I am not mistaken, the average pay with benefits is in excess of $135,000 under the new contracts. Not bad compared to the majority of people who they are transporting. Yes, they have to work off hours. However, so do younger physicians and EMS workers.
That's not bad, but doesn't getting an AC pilot's job require thousands of dollars invested in getting a pilot's licence plus possibly years of servitude at smaller outfits and/or Jazz, which are much lower paid?
Not that I'm feeling bad for the pilots, but I do know a guy who is hoping to catch on with mainline soon and he spent a few years in the bush up north and schlepping around on CRJ/CRA for Jazz to get here, and he's certainly not rolling in coin.
So I'm genuinely curious.
Last edited by tcook052; Mar 1, 2017 at 8:51 pmReason: split post
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Feb 28, 2017, 11:51 pm
#3
jaysona
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Originally Posted by Adam Smith
That's not bad, but doesn't getting an AC pilot's job require thousands of dollars invested in getting a pilot's licence plus possibly years of servitude at smaller outfits and/or Jazz, which are much lower paid?
Not that I'm feeling bad for the pilots, but I do know a guy who is hoping to catch on with mainline soon and he spent a few years in the bush up north and schlepping around on CRJ/CRA for Jazz to get here, and he's certainly not rolling in coin.
So I'm genuinely curious.
Widbody mainline are doing well. I know of some Embraer and A320 pilots that moved to Rouge widbody for a bump in pay.
The A320 pilots do pretty well too, next come the Embraer pilots, then the CRJ/CRA, Q400, Dash-8 and Beechcract pilots - from what I have been told from a friends ex that flies the Embraer 190.
It does take time to work your way up to the widebodies, which is what most strive for. I know of eight FA's that are pilots or in the process of getting their CPL with the hopes of eventually flying for AC. The FA's are all between 21 and 27, so they have plenty of career years ahead of them. ^
There are other FA's that have their private license but have no desire for a CPL, and some of them have nice Instagram feeds too. 
Last edited by tcook052; Mar 1, 2017 at 8:50 pmReason: edit quote
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Mar 1, 2017, 12:00 am
#4
eigenvector
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Originally Posted by Adam Smith
That's not bad, but doesn't getting an AC pilot's job require thousands of dollars invested in getting a pilot's licence plus possibly years of servitude at smaller outfits and/or Jazz, which are much lower paid?
Not that I'm feeling bad for the pilots, but I do know a guy who is hoping to catch on with mainline soon and he spent a few years in the bush up north and schlepping around on CRJ/CRA for Jazz to get here, and he's certainly not rolling in coin.
So I'm genuinely curious.
It was always my impression that most of the big international airlines expect pilots to fund their own training and accumulate many flying hours (often at very low pay) at regional outfits - and that is backed up by the many conversations I've had with pilots at all the small outfits that fly around BC, nearly all of whom are hoping to one day make it to AC, WS or one of the US3. But I bumped into a former classmate of mine (went to engineering school with the guy) at LHR not too long along and learned he's a BA mainline pilot and was hired as such right from school, with all of his training paid by BA. He started on the A32x family. I had no idea such a career path exists. Then again, both of the guy's parents are longtime BA employees, so...
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Mar 1, 2017, 4:05 am
#5
quantumofforce
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Originally Posted by eigenvector
It was always my impression that most of the big international airlines expect pilots to fund their own training and accumulate many flying hours (often at very low pay) at regional outfits - and that is backed up by the many conversations I've had with pilots at all the small outfits that fly around BC, nearly all of whom are hoping to one day make it to AC, WS or one of the US3. But I bumped into a former classmate of mine (went to engineering school with the guy) at LHR not too long along and learned he's a BA mainline pilot and was hired as such right from school, with all of his training paid by BA. He started on the A32x family. I had no idea such a career path exists. Then again, both of the guy's parents are longtime BA employees, so...
SQ starts training from a young age as well
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Mar 1, 2017, 10:29 am
#6
Adam Smith
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So is there a divergence between North America and the rest of the world just because NA airlines have such huge parts of their operations run by the regionals and can squeeze costs as a result? Not like BA or SQ is flying a lot of DH4s or CRJs.
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Mar 1, 2017, 12:50 pm
#7
After Burner
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Originally Posted by Transpacificflyer
Hmm. The senior pilots can earn up to $225,000 with their salary and benefits and that's more than me, so, I dunno.
Yes, I know that some of the junior drivers earn much less, but if I am not mistaken, the average pay with benefits is in excess of $135,000 under the new contracts. Not bad compared to the majority of people who they are transporting. Yes, they have to work off hours. However, so do younger physicians and EMS workers. The folks who work at the airports also can work odd hours too. These unhappy people should consider taking up a new career if they are unhappy. The company who operate my building are always looking for desk attendants and doormen.
I guess it depends on your frame of reference but those earnings numbers seem pretty modest to me. I don't know any wealthy airline pilots.
I almost chose that career path myself. I'm sure glad I didn't.
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Mar 1, 2017, 2:24 pm
#8
canadiancow
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Originally Posted by After Burner
I guess it depends on your frame of reference but those earnings numbers seem pretty modest to me.
I'm not saying I personally disagree with that statement, but...
1. 50% of Canadians in 2013 made under $35,200
2. 90% of Canadians in 2013 made under $97,000
3. 95% of Canadians in 2013 made under $137,000
4. 99% of Canadians in 2013 made under $245,000
So $225k would put you into the top 2-4%.
If you think that's "modest", then you're doing quite well. But I bet over 95% of Canadians would love to make over 200 
Source: http://business.financialpost.com/pe...canadians-make
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Mar 1, 2017, 2:50 pm
#9
Symmetre
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From knowing a lot of pilots and having married a surgeon, it seems to me that a pilot's lifetime earning curve and a doctor's income follow a similar path. School is so expensive you start out six figures in the hole, and for years you work your tail off while earning an embarrassingly low wage that would shock most people considering the responsibility you hold.
Over time, the wage works its way up and maybe 12 - 15 years into it, you're finally out of debt and you've clawed your way all the way up to being flat broke. Once you make it, the compensation is very good indeed. But it all comes to you in the back half of your career. If you average it out over a lifetime, it's good money, but not spectacular.
Point being, I don't think anyone becomes a pilot (or a quack) for money. Those types probably get weeded out in the first few weeks of school.
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Mar 1, 2017, 8:55 pm
#10
tcook052
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Please note these posts on pilot pay where carved out of another thread as they were off topic.
Regards,
tcook052
AC forum moderator
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Mar 1, 2017, 9:40 pm
#11
24left
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I was discussing this with some FTers a while back and I'd asked the question: I wonder where on the list AC pilots would fit, ML, Rouge, the regionals
"Pilot Salaries in 2017: Which Airline Will Have the Highest Pay?"
Published: 01-11-2017
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Mar 1, 2017, 11:18 pm
#12
Adam Smith
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Originally Posted by canadiancow
If you think that's "modest", then you're doing quite well. But I bet over 95% of Canadians would love to make over 200 [/url]
It's not a bad living at all at the wages that TPF quoted, and it has fairly good job security since it's a union job, but it also lacks the big upside that one can come across in certain jobs. No getting rich from big stock options or anything like that.
And the irregular schedule doesn't help. I'm not sure pilots would be quite as bad as shift workers like nurses and police, but with redeyes, constant time zone shifts, etc, there's a decent chance that pilots have a lower life expectancy, which should be worth something in terms of wages.
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Mar 1, 2017, 11:32 pm
#13
canadiancow
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Originally Posted by Adam Smith
It's not a bad living at all at the wages that TPF quoted, and it has fairly good job security since it's a union job, but it also lacks the big upside that one can come across in certain jobs. No getting rich from big stock options or anything like that.
And the irregular schedule doesn't help. I'm not sure pilots would be quite as bad as shift workers like nurses and police, but with redeyes, constant time zone shifts, etc, there's a decent chance that pilots have a lower life expectancy, which should be worth something in terms of wages.
I'm pretty sure anyone making under 100k also isn't planning to make it rich on stock options.
225k reported income is insanely high for Canada.
I know what you do. You know what I do. $225k CAD isn't what we want to be making at the peak of our careers.
But it's more than 95% of the population make. My only argument is that it's not "modest".
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Mar 2, 2017, 12:34 am
#14
After Burner
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Originally Posted by canadiancow
I'm pretty sure anyone making under 100k also isn't planning to make it rich on stock options.
225k reported income is insanely high for Canada.
I know what you do. You know what I do. $225k CAD isn't what we want to be making at the peak of our careers.
But it's more than 95% of the population make. My only argument is that it's not "modest".
I estimate that >95% of the population have very little ambition when it comes to income targets. It's just not a priority for most people. If you accept that premise then you would expect earnings for that 95% segment to be "modest." Actually I think it's closer to 99%.
As someone noted upthread, one does not choose to become an AC pilot to become wealthy.
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Mar 2, 2017, 1:09 am
#15
eigenvector
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Originally Posted by After Burner
I estimate that >95% of the population have very little ambition when it comes to income targets. It's just not a priority for most people. If you accept that premise then you would expect earnings for that 95% segment to be "modest." Actually I think it's closer to 99%.
As someone noted upthread, one does not choose to become an AC pilot to become wealthy.
Speaking for myself only, I lost any significant ambition to earn more money way before 225k. Around 100k I started to ask myself how I could work less rather than earning more. One of the biggest things being an airline pilot provides, at the senior levels, is a good deal of schedule flexibility which is something many other high-earners may not have even if they are pulling in much more than $225k.
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